Christina talks to award-winning podcast producer Amanda Cupido on her own podcasting journey, on what makes a great story, what the future of podcasting looks like, and tips to starting your own podcast. Then we'll get to know a bit more about the Shelve Under team.
“If you get people listening past the first 10 seconds of your podcast, they're probably going to stick through the whole thing. So those first 10 seconds are so valuable, you gotta make the best use of it.”
-Amanda Cupido, award-winning podcast producer
Books, articles, podcasts, and websites mentioned in this episode:
Let's Talk Podcasting: the Essential Guide to Doing It Right by Amanda Cupido
Her Story - Episode 1 - Athletics
STARTUP podcast (by Gimlet), Season 1 Episode 1: How Not to Pitch a Billionaire
Google Podcasts creator program
Phoebe Wang's acceptance speech (2018 Third Coast Awards Ceremony)
Radiolab, Episode, "Animal Minds"
Flights by Olga Tokarczuk
Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead by Olga Tokarczuk
Contact us at shelveunder@torontopubliclibrary.ca
Shelve Under: Podcasting (Season 02, Episode 01)
Christina Okay, I don't even have the page set up, I'm so nervous.
Amanda Don't be nervous.
Christina I'm usually cool as a cucumber.
Amanda Because it's podcasting about podcasting right so everyone gets so self-conscious. But like I've been here, so don't worry.
Christina This is amazing, this is all going in.
Amanda Oh, God. The prep, what it takes. But hey, people don't realize how hard it is to do an interview.
Christina So I had my laptop set up thinking I was going to record straight...
Christina Welcome to Shelve Under Podcast, the Toronto Public Library podcast for readers, writers and podcasters. I'm Christina Wong and for our Season 2 opener, we're delving into the world of podcasting. First, I'll be chatting with award-winning podcast producer, audio storytelling instructor at Seneca College, and former TPL Innovator in Residence and how she caught the podcasting bug. She'll also walk us through the steps to making a podcast and the rise of this storytelling medium. And then we'll get to know a little bit more about the Shelve Under team. Finally, we'll be offering our own podcast recommendations.
Amanda My name is Amanda Cupido and I'm a podcast producer, formerly the Innovator in Residence at the Toronto Public Library for podcasting. I've also written the book Let's Talk Podcasting the Essential Guide to Doing It Right.
Christina Which is very easy to read, I loved it.
Amanda Did you enjoy it?
Christina I did.
Amanda I'm so glad.
Christina I was like, I like this.
Amanda I wrote it like a long blog post, essentially, because I'm a journalist by, you know, my first career. So yeah, my background so that's why I kind of just kept going.
Christina I felt like you were talking to me.
Amanda Good, that's a great compliment.
Christina Yeah I love this, it's like she's right there.
Amanda And you know I wrote it myself, it's in my voice for sure.
Christina I could tell.
Amanda Thank you.
Christina So how did you first get involved in the world of podcasting, or how did you catch the podcasting bug?
Amanda Yeah, so it kind of happened over time. I, as I mentioned was in, I was a journalist at first and I was working in radio. And of course, I loved audio from a young age. I was always listening to the radio and calling into radio stations. So I went to school for journalism, got into major market radio as a producer, worked my way through as a reporter, a news anchor. And during that time, podcasting was kind of slowly starting to, you know, get its name and become popular. And I was getting asked to work on some podcast projects on the side just because I was really confident with editing audio and producing pieces. And then in 2014, things shifted. Not only in my life, but also in the podcasting industry. That's the year that Serial was released. This is the year that Gimlet, the production house was made and launched. And at that time I was working at a digital content agency and I started really paying attention seriously to the industry and how it could be made, a business model could be made for it. And so that's when I really caught the bug, so to say, and started really just everyday checking, you know what was the latest and experimenting with things and pitching the idea to clients that we were working with. And through that, I ended up building out a podcast vertical at the content agency I was at called Media Face. And the rest is history. Then I'm now, I've been producing podcasts ever since.
Christina That's amazing. So what was it about podcasting itself that I guess appealed to you more than, I guess, television or radio? Well, I guess podcasting is radio, too...
Amanda But yeah there are differences. And yeah, I mean, every medium has its own perks and things that you'll love about it. But specifically for podcasting, for me, I think that there's an intimacy through audio. So versus TV, when you're just listening to audio, you kind of have to let the listener imagine things and through that you make it your own. So you develop these bonds that are incredible. And between radio and podcasting, I found that radio I was I was working in news. So of course, the stories I was filing were based on the newsreel. And I put so much effort into a story that then when the day was done, the story was no longer relevant. It was left on the cutting room floor. And so I really loved the idea of podcasting kind of having a longer life, a longer shelf life.
Christina That's such a great description. I like what you're saying it has this intimacy and connection that you love about it. I guess what's been one story that's done that for you, or and also, what makes a great story for you?
Amanda Oh, good questions.
Christina I know those are two big questions.
Amanda OK, so first I'll start with what makes a great story. I think any almost anything can be a great story. And it's a matter of I mean, I take it as I need to be able to bring out the best version of it. And sometimes that means adjusting as the recorder or interviewer based on my subject, because really I really want people to feel comfortable when they're talking to me or even if I'm just there recording and not doing a formal interview. I want their authentic selves. And so to create an environment where people feel like they can be their authentic self. Number one, without a camera, that always helps. I found in radio I was getting great interviews and more compelling clips than my TV colleagues because people forget that you're holding a mic. You're just looking into someone's eyes and you're not looking into a camera and have a big light on you. So I always felt like I could kind of get down to, to getting people to really feel comfortable right away. At least quicker. A story that I covered, my goodness. I mean, there's been so many. The first one that just pops into my mind is one that I was one of my first podcast series I did with the digital content agency. So the podcast series was called Her Story. And it was we were just profiling Canadian women. And one of the episode one, the first woman we profiled was a woman named Victoria. And she was a blind Paralympic athlete. And she was telling us the story of how she lost her sight. And so she's a rower right now. And, you know, again, someone like that, I don't know how she would have responded and how she would have told the story if we came in with cameras. Even though she's still got a little bit of a sight, but that could actually make someone feel really self-conscious. Especially you can't see. But that intimacy of having my microphone there, I was able to record her, you know, moving through her house and her husband telling her, you know, kind of take a step here and take us up there, made you feel like you are with us. And then she sat down and told us how she had, you know, a degenerating eye disorder. And she had kind of had a little bit of sight problems growing up. But then when she had her first child, she lost a significant amount of her sight. And then she really wanted to have a second child. But they, the doctors told her, you will pretty much lose all your sight if you have that second child. And she made this hard decision to have that second child and give up her sight. I know. Good. And so she has about three percent of her sight left now. And her telling all of this on the record of being so open right off the bat with me was incredible. And she ended up, you know, going into a bit of a depression and feeling like a mom. And her words were that she didn't feel like a good enough mom now because she couldn't do all the things she wanted to do for kids and that rowing and sports made her feel empowered and made her feel like a good example for her kids again. Right? It brings a tear to your eye. And anyway, this story was compelling. Hey, you can search up the episode if you want, it's still on iTunes and all that.
Christina We'll link that.
Amanda Yes. There you go. But, you know, it's, it was, it's those kind of stories where you need someone to be feeling comfortable to be able to just open up and share.
Christina It's that level of trust.
Amanda The trust and not worry about anything else other than them speaking. And I think, yeah, we were able to do that really well with that episode.
Christina Wow, that's really powerful. What's been a story, I guess, that you've heard on a podcast that's affected you as well?
Amanda That's a good one. I referenced this episode quite often, even when I'm doing workshops about podcasting. And that's Season 1 Episode 1 of Gimlet Start-Up, which is it's Alex Blumberg and he's talking about how he's starting. It's very meta, he's doing a podcast about starting his podcast company. And he has this audio of him pitching his company to a billionaire. And the episode's actually called How Not to Pitch a Billionaire because he gets really nervous a,nd this audio is, is incredible. And they're standing on a street corner and he's pitching him this idea and he's recording the whole thing. And he's so nervous and is and even him and his own pitch tone like the pitch of his voice is crackling and going all over the place. And what he does is he interweaves narration with the raw audio of that pitch and he kind of goes, OK, now you're going to hear my voice cracks and I sound like a dummy. And it cuts to right this this amazing raw audio that you couldn't have planned, you couldn't have scripted. It's just so real. And you feel like you're standing there listening to the conversation. And I remember listening to that in 2014 when it came out and going, there's something here like that's magical the way he told that story. And I know I could tell stories that way, too, which is why it inspired me to continue creating podcasts.
Christina That's so nice.
Amanda Yeah.
Christina So you talk about the different waves of podcasting. I guses in 2014 was when it like the pivotal movement I would say.
Amanda Yes.
Christina What would you think, is there a third wave or fourth or whatever wave number we're at?
Amanda I think I definitely think there's more waves to come. That shift in 2014 was a real large one. And so, yes, it's really notable. Will that next wave come in this foreseeable future? I don't know when it might be a while, because right now we're on a slow, I feel a slow trajectory upward. Every year listenership is growing. Every year, more and more podcasts are getting released, right. So we're kind of chugging along now in this pretty predictable up climb. But I do think what would indicate another wave, or what would what would be a catalyst? I think once someone cracks either a new way, a new technology that allows the listening to happen in a different way, that will shift things. But another shift we might also see is in more of the the business model of podcasting and the way we consume it, because right now it's a bit fragmented. We have all these listeners, we have all these podcasts, but people are still trying to figure out what's the best way to monetize a podcast? What's the best way of disseminating a podcast? And once we start seeing a more streamlined version of that where there's a go to. So like Apple is saying, they might start doing originals. So that can really change the game in the podcasting landscape if that bust onto the scene in a big way, everything can change. We also saw right now there was this just recently the release of a streaming service called Luminary.
Christina Yes, I was gonna ask about that.
Amanda You were going to ask about that, good, you're on it. Well, because that has the potential to change how we listen to podcasts. But, so it's had a bit of a rocky launch. And essentially, for those of you who don't know what Luminary is, it's a. streaming service, very similar to a Netflix, but for podcasts. We don't know yet if it's it's just so new, it launched last month, so it's still in its exploratory phase. But these kinds of innovations, these kinds of, you know, different ways of disseminating podcasts will, once it gets more streamlined, once we kind of figure out what works, what doesn't, everyone's gonna just copy it. That's what, you know, that always happens. Someone just needs to crack that nut. And whenever that happens, we might be seeing a next wave.
Christina Do you think it's gone too corporate? Only because I did read Spotify had acquired, was it Gimlet?
Amanda Yes Spotify acquired it.
Christina Just in February of this year, 2019. So I feel like once the big corporations kind of jump in, is there, is there still room for the indie voice, or the indie podcasts?
Amanda I'm scared of that, to be honest, because of course. I mean, Gimlet became far from indie as it was anyway. They were pretty big themselves and had more than 50 podcasts, more than 100 employees. But, they were just creating content that, you know, they didn't really have an alternate agenda per say. They were really story-driven, which is why I love them. Another recent acquisition was Pacific Content, which was a branded podcast company out of Canada, was acquired by Rogers Media. And that was a big deal in the podcast community as well, because especially out of Canada, we don't have as many podcast networks as we do in the U.S. and Pacific content and really made a name for themselves again. Great work. Loved their podcast. High quality. What does that mean when Rogers owns them. What's it gonna look like? But at the same time, I'm still seeing, there's still a lot of smaller networks, especially in the U.S., that are still going to be creating great podcasts that are gonna be accessible, that are gonna make headlines, so to say, and get a lot of attention around them. So I don't think we're gonna lose out on that voice. Podcasting is the most accessible medium. There will always be room for indie voices. I think.
Christina In that world, how do you think we can ensure, I guess, diverse voices are still being heard? I guess that's it's still overwhelmingly not diverse. So how do we, do you...I don't know.
Amanda Yeah, I think there's no perfect answer to that. But what I will say is that there has been such an intentionality around lifting diverse voices in the podcasting space unlike I've seen in any other broadcast medium that I've been working in. You know, in my in my lifetime, I've never seen so much intentionality around scholarships, podcast bursaries, you know, grants being available for people of colour, woman's voices, you know, like just marginalized voices. There really is a lot going out. So there was a Google PRX contest.
Christina Okay.
Amanda Were you gonna mention it? Yes. And they specifically said that's what that's who they're looking to fund. They have $40,000 up for grabs. They had two waves of this part of this contest. And so I'm so excited to see what comes out of that. That's the kind of stuff that we need in order to ensure that we keep that space open and that we really do lift the voices and also the voices that need to be lifted. But, you know, and also there's some tracking around it that is being done from day one, which was not done, for instance in news. So, you know, "Werk It," which is a conference hosted by WNYC in the U.S. They've been tracking the top 20 Apple podcasts and how many are hosted by women. And they now have an ongoing tracker and they've seen an increase in women's voices being chosen as host. Right. Which is great. So the most recent stat was that there was about 30 in the 30s, 30 percent of the the podcasts were hosted by women and just a matter of three or four years ago was in its low 20s. So we've already seen a bit of a jump start. It would be great if it was closer to 50-50. But we're making progress. And hey, we have benchmarks and we're sharing those stats so that everyone's aware. And I think those are those kinds of measures that are really important. So people can just have, you know, that awareness around the inclusivity piece and really intentionally try to try to change it. So I think that's important and that's very prevalent in the podcasting space.
Christina I forget her name, but I was reading the transcript of the person who won...this was at the Third Coast International Awards. And her speech was just...
Amanda Incredible.
Christina Yeah.
Amanda It was about people of colour being involved, right?
Christina Yes. And I was just like, you see, there's no no one who's diverse, but here are the people, why aren't you calling them--
Amanda --Calling them up and she even created an email, email me, if you're one of them.
Christina I was like this is amazing. Like, we need these kinds of initiatives. And I think and I and I want the gatekeepers or whoever to just, you know, even either tap into this or just kind of be more open.
Amanda Yes. And I think there, yeah. So even just having that speech on that platform and circulate as much as it was, great. And no, that's...exactly. That's the kind of stuff I hope to continue to see.
Christina How challenging is it to make a living in podcasting?
Amanda Ah, yes. I get that question a lot. I think it really depends. If you asked me in Canada, if I start my own podcast in my basement, how likely is it that I can then have it be my full-time job? It's a bit difficult. It can happen. And this is just kind of like when bloggers were starting. Right. So everyone could start a blog. And you saw some people really rise to the top, be able to make a living off it, become what we call now influencers. But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't everyone. But at the same time, there are a lot of jobs in podcasting. And so I teach at Seneca College and I teach the radio and audio storytelling class where it was great, I got to rewrite the class to include podcasting. And I tell those students of mine, hey, if you like podcasting, sure, start your own, go experiment, dabble. But look, go look for jobs because jobs are getting posted all the time right now. The Rogers, the Coruses, even these big companies are wanting to hire people who know how to make podcasts. They're starting to invest in the medium, which is great. It's a bit of an exploratory time, but hey, why not? We're also seeing a lot of government grants going towards podcasting. We're seeing a lot of companies who even just want an internal podcast. So if you love podcasting that much, and you just want to be making podcasts for a living and you're flexible with what it's about and where you're doing it. Oh, yeah. You can get a job. There's postings going up all the time. They may not be the exact topic you want to do it on, but hey, that's any industry, right? You've got to start somewhere and build a portfolio and then just go from there. So I think it just depends on how you define what success looks like in that space for you. I think that audio storytelling can be incredible no matter where you do it. So if you, if people are able to broaden out their their horizons that way, then, yeah, they can definitely get a job in podcasting.
Christina And how you're saying anything can be a story.
Amanda Anything. Yeah, exactly. You know, I just think there's a lot of potential for stories and people don't realize it.
Christina Can you walk us through your journey of getting an idea to actual podcast? Yeah, I think that's probably a long thing, but...
Amanda But let's, let's tackle this. Walking it through. Well, I'm sure as many people can relate to this: I have so many ideas for podcasts. Every other day, I'm like, that could be a podcast! And so and people are like that with anything they're passionate about. But it's kind of wading through like, okay, what's a realistic idea that I want to really highlight and then taking it across the finish line. So, I mean, usually how I start is if I have an idea, I start running it by people seeing how they react. And I immediately start thinking about how the first thing is like, who is the audience and how is it best to tell this story? Which is a lot of people don't take that step and I think that's why there's a lot of podcasts that we see that has one episode and nothing else. Or, you know, six months worth of doing work and then just drop off because it's either not sustainable, they can't find their audience, or they're not doing it in a way that's actually best. And even something as simple as coming up with the name of a podcast and one line to describe it, that is so important. People just zoom past that part of the process.
Christina It takes so long.
Amanda It takes so long. And I encourage people to sit and write and rewrite and say it out loud and say it to a friend and record themselves and listen back, right. Because those, they say, you know, if you get people listening past ten seconds of your, first ten seconds of your podcast, they're probably going to stick through the whole thing. So those ten, first 10 seconds are so valuable, you gotta make the best use of it. So I guess I'm really just talking about this beginning part a lot, but that is really...
Christina It's really key.
Amanda The importance because then the rest of it you can read blogs, and record, and edit, and that's all gonna change depending on what kind of podcast you have. But no matter what podcast you have, those beginning steps are just so important. And so yeah and if you have more than one person working on it, it's really helpful, I'll say that too. Even just someone to bounce ideas off of and talk things out with her.
Christina So that's really key to like go into it prepared, knowing what you want.
Amanda Yes.
Christina What you think you're, you know, reflect the audience, or think of your audience as you said.
Amanda Yes, exactly.
Christina Any tips or advice to new podcasters, or what do you like to tell your students?
Amanda My number one thing I like to tell people, students or people in my workshops, is that break out of the of the headspace of trying to to make a podcast like a chat cast. And I know that sounds...so the chat cast--this is kinda technically a chat cast--but this works. But I think people listen to this kind of podcast and then I think that's the only way I can do a podcast. And so I just tell people, listen to other things. Listen beyond, even if you have your favourite two podcasts and this is how they are, great. You don't even have to like the content of other podcasts you listen to, but listen for the format. Listen to how they edit the story together and get inspired by that, by the production of it. And maybe you're going to be able to draw a little pieces. And we're in a time where we're all defining different formats as so exciting. Draw pieces from a million different podcasts. I mean, this is how I work, right? I take a thing from here, a thing from there, and I put it together because it makes sense for what I'm trying to make here. And and that's how you were gonna be really telling stories to the best way, the best way that they could possibly be told. So I want to encourage people to break out of the headspace of I just need to sit down and do interviews.
Christina It's about how you were saying listening in because that's so important because then you could either pick up something that you normally wouldn't have picked up and that becomes your story, or something.
Amanda Exactly. Yes. Yes.
Christina I'm getting inspired.
Amanda Good, start a new podcast!
Christina So last fall, you were the Innovator in Residence at the Toronto Reference Library, I need to say that at the innovation hub. I want to ask, what what did you take away from that experience? What did you learn from it?
Amanda So, yeah, my experience as the innovator residents at the Toronto Reference Library, it was incredible. I got to meet a lot of amazing people. I took away from that, that there is a lot of people who are hungry to make podcasts, to learn about podcasts. And I was so grateful for the experience because I also did one-on-one consultations where I got to meet people, sit down, and really hear their ideas, and I had so many amazing ideas shared with me. And not only am I grateful for people trusting me to tell me their idea, but also I genuinely was excited for them and so excited to hear what comes of that. You know, my dream would be that someone makes a podcast that does really well and goes like, you know, I started from a session at the library and I don't doubt that it could happen. Like there was some really, really brilliant ideas. And I think sometimes people just needed to hear that, too, from someone other than their mom. I think hearing it from me really validated some people and their idea. And their ideas--
Christina And that's so important because it's just having that mentor there.
Amanda I was so glad. No. And that was exactly it. I was so glad to be in that role and to be able to tell, to talk to people about those kinds of things. And I hope that, yeah I hope that they still feel encouraged on their journey because there can be ups and downs like any project, and it's hard. And I just hope that they they stick with it because there was a lot of there's a lot of really great stuff coming from there.
Christina Do you have any book recommendations or maybe I should say podcast recommendations?
Amanda Yes. So podcast recommendations, which kind of ties into reading as well is my favourite one is Modern Love. And so this is from The New York Times. And this is a section where people submit essays. And so you can, not only if you want to read it, hey, go to the library and get The New York Times and you can physically read the Modern Love section. But if you want a podcast recommendation, then, hey, here we go. The Modern Love podcast they get--it's amazing what they do-- they get actors to read these essays about love, loss, and redemption. That's the tagline of the podcast, I listen to it quite often. And, and then they, they soundscape it so beautifully. It's incredible. And then so the first half of the podcast is them reading an essay and the second half they have a conversation with the author, with the actor who read it, with the editor of the section, right. And they all, they all discuss, you know, just follow up, where are they now? And, you know some choices that were made and why. So I think, and this is a great one because it's evergreen, that word, meaning you can go and pop in at any time. It's relevant, you don't have to listen sequentially, you could just go listen to any episode and appreciate it. They standalone. It's just a really great listen. So that would be my there's a little reading and podcast recommendation in.
Christina Awesome!
Christina I'd like to thank Amanda for coming in and chatting with me about all things podcasting. She's got some really great tips. So if you're thinking of starting your own podcast and I highly recommend her book, Let's Talk Podcasting, which the Library does have. And now we'll hear from my fellow hosts, Wendy, Jason and Mike, and producer, Ted.
Christina What got you into podcasting in the first place?
Wendy I don't remember what made me first listen to my first podcast, but I remember that it was an episode of Radiolab and I was immediately smitten. I know you are also a fan of Radiolab, right Christina?
Christina Yeah, very much so.
Wendy Yes. Yeah. It's so good. And I and I think I was reading a blog post that linked to it and it was about there were two episodes about animal minds. One of them was about a leopard seal and one of them was about a chimpanzee. And I wound up listening to them back to back and they just blew my mind. And after that, I was addicted and listened to them, listen to all the Radiolabs, then started listening to other podcasts as well.
Christina So generally podcasts are meant to, I guess make you feel connected or invested in characters or even the stories. What story has done that for you or what? Or maybe a podcast episode or certain podcast in general?
Jason For me, when it's a topic that I'm really excited about, that's what will really engage me. Very recently I've been listening to This American Life again. I kind of come on and off of it. But when there's these really human interest stories where they talk about someone's personal lived experience, those kind of stories really connect with me.
Christina What do you think makes a great story?
Wendy OK, I think for me, what I like most in this story is being surprised. I like a good plot twist and the sort of the details of human behaviour. People are almost always surprising when you kind of scratch beneath the surface a little bit.
Christina Why did you want to do a podcast for the Toronto Public Library?
Mike The honest answer is just that it seemed like fun and interesting and it's something I just wanted to give it a try and see what it would be like. The nice thing with the format of our podcast is that we get to talk to people that interest us at that time.
Christina What have you learned so far doing this podcast?
Ted Probably everybody says this, but it's a lot harder than than it looks and a lot harder than I thought it would be.
Jason It takes a lot longer than you think it's going to take.
Mike Making a podcast is a lot of work.
Wendy Podcasting takes a lot of time. It's very time consuming. Editing and everything takes up a lot of time.
Christina What would be your podcast or book recommendation?
Wendy Okay, so obviously Radiolab. It's amazing it's still going on and it's still really, really good and there are hundreds of episodes at this point. And let's see, in terms of book recommendations. Okay. I'm actually reading something right now that I love. And there's something sort of podcast-y about it. It's, so it's this book called Flights. The author is Olga Tokarczuk. She's a Polish writer and it's in translation. It's this collection of short essays like most of them are less than a page long and then short, sort of interspersed with short stories. They're all on the theme of travel. And I'm feeling such a personal affinity with this author. She's just really good company and her her voice is really sort of intimate and personal and it's kind of like listening to somebody. It's like with the podcast when you've got your headphones on and they're talking right in your ear. That's kind of what the reading experience is like. And that's sort of how she writes, too. It's the sort of.. I...I don't even know how to describe it. I just strongly recommend checking out Olga Tokarczuk. She's got a new book called Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead.
Jason One of my favourite podcasts right now is a show called OPPO. It's from Canadaland. It does Canadian news criticism. They also have an offshoot podcast, which they started, which is discussing politics. It's hosted by two people named Justin Ling and Jen Gerson. And they just talk about different issues that are occurring. It's a bi-weekly podcast, but is really entertaining and like they really delve down into topics. And, you know, one of them is a little bit more left-leaning and other one's more right-leaning, but they always kind of find a consensus in the middle, which I really appreciate and like. It is very divisive sometimes. And the other one is called, it's another Canadian show called Stop Podcasting Yourself. It's a comedy show out of Vancouver. And they're just two comedians, standups, and they talk to guests who are also in comedy in one way or another. And it's very kind of Canadian. It's very polite in a way and fun and consistent. But I really like listening to, it's a salve kind of podcast.
My podcast recommendation is Missing and Murdered, which is a CBC True Crime podcast. There have been two seasons as of the moment we're recording this. Both seasons have dealt with missing and murdered indigenous women. And what I really like about it is it's a true crime podcast, which gives you the true crime element, but also brings it in the context of the larger society and how these crimes are representative of other issues that are happening in society. In the second season, they have a family who is looking for their relative who was taken in the sixties scoop when she was a young girl. She was adopted by family in the States. And so they are trying to figure out what has happened to her. What it's really done is taken that true crime sort of format, but use it to have a look at the effects of the crime on the family and the effects that the sixties scoop has had on the family members. To change tones, if anyone wants to have like, know some baseball podcast recommendations, just e-mail our Shelve Under email and I can send you like five different baseball podcast recommendations.
Ted My recommendation is going to be the Maximum Fun Podcast Network. So they have a whole suite of of podcasts and it's one of these independently-owned. There's a lot of comedy sort of entertainment and culture podcasts, so the ones that I really like are Judge John Hodgman is on that network. There's a podcast called Friendly Fire. And if you want to be really sort of nerdy and I love this podcast but it'll definitely label me, I guess. But The Greatest Generation is a Star Trek podcast. If you go to the website, maximumfun.org, you'll be able to see all of their all of their podcasts.
Christina That's so cool.
Ted The thing I like about that podcast and podcasts in general, just to get back to an earlier question, was the communities that sort of arise around a lot of podcasts. And the one nice thing with that Star Trek podcast in particular, there's a whole like inside community, really supportive group of people who have connected through that that podcast. It's really interesting and I've seen that with a few different podcasts I listen to and it's a kind of a neat aspect that you don't get with a lot of other media.
Christina What's one thing that you like to share with our listeners that we don't know about you?
Wendy I read a lot of books. I guess that's not surprising since I'm a librarian and everything.
Jason I like to cook.
Mike Oh, boy. Other than dad jokes?
Christina Other than dad jokes.
Mike Other than dad jokes. I like, I like cats. Cats are cool.
Ted About me?
Christina Yeah, well, we just found out you're Trekkie fan.
Ted Yeah, I think have I said enough?
Christina So there are several definitions of what defines a story, but I really like this one that I found on dictionary.com. It describes a story as a narrative, either true or fictitious, in prose or verse, designed to interest, amuse or instruct the hearer or reader. So what makes a great story? So as my fellow hosts already said, a story should have compelling characters and can be relatable in some way. Stories have the ability to make you think laugh and cry. So if you were thinking about making a podcast, it does take longer than you think. But don't let that deter you. Just, you know, prepare yourself for that. There are stories around us just waiting to be told and heard. And to reiterate what Amanda had said earlier, anything can make a great story. And in this season of Shelve Under, we hope to bring you more stories about the library, about its services, about its people, and the issues that affect us and the city.
George Wendy Banks just wants to be left alone to read. Jason Behzadian makes a good kimchee. Ted Belke is a hardcore Trekker. Michael Warner slips in dad jokes in conversation. And Christina Wong likes to ask questions. Amanda Cupido is an award-winning podcast producer. Visit www.amandacupido.com to learn more about her work. Music by Highs. Shelve Under: Podcast is a Toronto Public Library production. It is produced by Wendy Banks, Jason Behzadian, Ted Belke, Michael Warner, and Christina Wong, with production assistance by George Panayotou.